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Dual Z tilts after time (fast)

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  • undefined
    AS-3D Druck
    last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 16:08

    Thx, but does it work also if i connected both to the Z?
    I thought i need that Expansion Board for a "second" Z Axis.

    Best regards
    AS-3D Druck / Andre

    undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 14 Dec 2019, 16:30 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      aidar @AS-3D Druck
      last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 16:30

      @AS-3D-Druck said in Dual Z tilts after time (fast):

      Thx, but does it work also if i connected both to the Z?

      No it does not.

      I thought i need that Expansion Board for a "second" Z Axis.

      You can use free driver on Duet, if you have one. Means for example, if you have only one extruder, connected to E0, then you can use E1 for second Z axis motor.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • undefined
        deckingman @AS-3D Druck
        last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 16:43

        @AS-3D-Druck The reason why it tilts is because every time you apply power, the motors jump to the nearest full step which might be either forwards or backwards. Actually, I believe it's worse than that and it might actually be a difference of 4 full steps but I can't remember the reason why.

        You have two practical options that I can think of. The first is to drive each motor independently and use bed levelling but as @aidar has pointed out, for that to happen each motor has to be connected to a separate driver. The second option would be to drive both screws together via a single motor and continuous belt.

        Ian
        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Dec 2019, 17:05 Reply Quote 1
        • undefined
          dc42 administrators @deckingman
          last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 17:05

          @deckingman said in Dual Z tilts after time (fast):

          The second option would be to drive both screws together via a single motor and continuous belt.

          Or stick with 2 motors, but connect them with a belt. The belt needs to prevent one motor moving by 4 full steps relative to the other.

          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • undefined
            jens55
            last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 17:10

            Would you not get 'wind up' of the mechanics if you have two motors connected like that?

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Dec 2019, 17:16 Reply Quote 1
            • undefined
              deckingman @jens55
              last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 17:16

              @jens55 said in Dual Z tilts after time (fast):

              Would you not get 'wind up' of the mechanics if you have two motors connected like that?

              I would have thought so but perhaps it might not be significant?

              Ian
              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • undefined
                AS-3D Druck
                last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 20:31

                Ok i tryed the independent Leadscrews but it looks like 1mm correction isn't enough. 😲

                	G32 Error: Some computed corrections exceed configured limit of 1.00mm: -2.080 2.814
                

                Best regards
                AS-3D Druck / Andre

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  Veti
                  last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 20:33

                  see
                  https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M671_Define_positions_of_Z_leadscrews_or_bed_levelling_screws
                  S parameter

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Dec 2019, 20:40 Reply Quote 1
                  • undefined
                    AS-3D Druck @Veti
                    last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 20:40

                    @Veti Thx i tryed 5mm now and it works.

                    From now on i should use in my start Gcode before every Print G32 S2 right?

                    Best regards
                    AS-3D Druck / Andre

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Dec 2019, 20:45 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      Veti @AS-3D Druck
                      last edited by 14 Dec 2019, 20:45

                      @AS-3D-Druck said in Dual Z tilts after time (fast):

                      From now on i should use in my start Gcode before every Print G32 S2 right?

                      it depends on your bed.
                      if its perfectly flat yes.

                      if not use
                      G32 followed by G29

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • undefined
                        AS-3D Druck
                        last edited by 15 Dec 2019, 10:15

                        Ok i don't know what happend but now my Homing has flipped from front left to back right. (Stall Detection)

                        I don't know why it worked yesterday and now not.

                        Best regards
                        AS-3D Druck / Andre

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          Veti
                          last edited by 15 Dec 2019, 10:48

                          do the normal moves are in the correct direction?
                          if yes -> check your homing file moves
                          if no -> change direction of motors in the config

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            AS-3D Druck
                            last edited by AS-3D Druck 15 Dec 2019, 12:04

                            This is how it homes
                            change dirrection.png

                            This is how i home all:

                            ; Lift Z relative to current position
                            G91
                            G1 Z10 F6000 S2
                            G90
                            M913 X50 Y50 ; reduce motor current to 50% to prevent belts slipping
                            G91 ; use relative positioning
                            ; X
                            G1 S1 X-500 F4000 ; move the X to max until it detects the min Point
                            G92 X0 ; set X min Point
                            G1 S1 X30 ; move X away from min Point
                            M400
                            ; Y
                            G1 S1 Y-500 F4000 ; move the X to max until it detects the min Point
                            G92 Y0 ; set X min Point
                            G1 S1 Y30 ; move X away from min Point
                            G90 ; back to absolute positioning
                            M913 X100 Y100 Z100 ; motor currents back to normal
                            ; Z
                            G1 S1 X168 Y95 F2000 ; put head over the centre of the bed, or wherever you want to probe
                            G30 ; lower head, stop when probe triggered and set Z to trigger height
                            G91 ; relative mode
                            G1 Z10 F6000 S2 ; raise head 4mm to ensure it is above the Z probe trigger height
                            G90 ; back to absolute mode

                            config: https://pastebin.com/gFtv1wM7

                            Best regards
                            AS-3D Druck / Andre

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Dec 2019, 12:13 Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              deckingman @AS-3D Druck
                              last edited by 15 Dec 2019, 12:13

                              @AS-3D-Druck Do the motors still move in the right correct directions? i.e. when you do G1 S1 X-500, does it still move to the left? And when you do G1 S1 Y-500, does it still move to the front?

                              Ian
                              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Dec 2019, 12:19 Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                AS-3D Druck @deckingman
                                last edited by AS-3D Druck 15 Dec 2019, 12:19

                                @deckingman said in Dual Z tilts after time (fast):

                                @AS-3D-Druck Do the motors still move in the right correct directions? i.e. when you do G1 S1 X-500, does it still move to the left? And when you do G1 S1 Y-500, does it still move to the front?

                                It does not move at all in - only in+ but there is no room for any Movement so it cares in the Extrusion.

                                The coordinates are set wrong for some reason 😵

                                btw. i added on my Post before the config.g
                                config: https://pastebin.com/gFtv1wM7

                                Best regards
                                AS-3D Druck / Andre

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  NitroFreak
                                  last edited by 15 Dec 2019, 14:21

                                  You might want to consider joining the two leadscrews with a belt

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    Veti
                                    last edited by 15 Dec 2019, 14:54

                                    @AS-3D-Druck said in Dual Z tilts after time (fast):

                                    It does not move at all in - only in+ but there is no room for any Movement so it cares in the Extrusion.

                                    this does not answer the question.

                                    move the extruder to the middle
                                    issue M564 H0
                                    and see if the movement are as expeded.
                                    ie x - goes left x+ goes right

                                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Dec 2019, 16:47 Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      AS-3D Druck @Veti
                                      last edited by 15 Dec 2019, 16:47

                                      @Veti No it does nit everything in - isn't working except i use M564 H0 than i can manualy move it to the middle but homing does still not work anymore.

                                      Best regards
                                      AS-3D Druck / Andre

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Dec 2019, 16:57 Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        deckingman @AS-3D Druck
                                        last edited by 15 Dec 2019, 16:57

                                        @AS-3D-Druck Starting with the print head in the middle step through your homing fie one line at a time but you can ignore the Z axis for now. So send M913 X50 Y50 to reduce the motor currents. Then send G91 to set relative positioning. Then send G1 S1 X-500 F4000 and tell us if the head moves to the left as it should or does it do something else?

                                        Ian
                                        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Dec 2019, 20:04 Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          AS-3D Druck @deckingman
                                          last edited by 15 Dec 2019, 20:04

                                          @deckingman said in Dual Z tilts after time (fast):

                                          @AS-3D-Druck Starting with the print head in the middle step through your homing fie one line at a time but you can ignore the Z axis for now. So send M913 X50 Y50 to reduce the motor currents. Then send G91 to set relative positioning. Then send G1 S1 X-500 F4000 and tell us if the head moves to the left as it should or does it do something else?

                                          Ok maybe i found the Issue here:

                                          ; X
                                          G1 S1 X-500 F4000

                                          I had to send 3-4 times this command until it started to move to the min point.
                                          Bevore that i heared only a tock after i send the command.... like there was already something that the stall detection noticed.

                                          I don't know my Motors are rated for 1.3A and i set them to 1A and reduced it to 50%.
                                          Now i played with M915 and increased the S Value from 3 to 8 to 10.

                                          It looks like that was the Problem.

                                          Thx alot for the help and i will try my next print with this new "Setup". 😊
                                          You're Guys are awesome. 👍

                                          Best regards
                                          AS-3D Druck / Andre

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