After Micro swiss DD upgrade,Extruder skips steps



  • Hi

    after i have upgrade to Micro Swiss DD with all metal hotend the Extruder skips steps.

    I have redone Pid tuning for Hotend all fine.

    i think it can be the motor currents (mA) but i dont know how to calculate.

    My Extruder Motor:
    https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07TXD7ZCF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

    My Setup:

    Ender 5 24V
    Duet Wifi with Firmware: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.1.1 (2020-05-19b2)
    Duet WiFi Server Version: 1.23

    my config.g:

    ; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 1.21)
    ; executed by the firmware on start-up
    ;
    ; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2 on Tue May 07 2019 23:06:50 GMT+0100 (British Summer Time)
    
    ; General preferences
    G90                                      ; Send absolute coordinates...
    M83                                      ; ...but relative extruder moves
    
    ; Network
    M550 P"Ender 5"                          ; Set machine name
    M552 S1                                  ; Enable network
    M586 P0 S1                               ; Enable HTTP
    M586 P1 S0                               ; Disable FTP
    M586 P2 S0                               ; Disable Telnet
    
    ; Drives
    M569 P0 S1                               ; Physical drive 0 goes forwards
    M569 P1 S1                               ; Physical drive 1 goes forwards
    M569 P2 S0                               ; Physical drive 2 goes backwards
    M569 P3 S1                               ; Physical drive 3 goes forwards
    M584 X0 Y1 Z2 E3                               ; set drive mapping
    ;M350 E128 I0                                   ; configure microstepping without interpolation
    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1							; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z800.00 E139.19              ; set steps per mm
    M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z60.00 E4000.00      ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X15000.00 Y15000.00 Z600.00 E8000.00  ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z100.00 E5000.00          ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X800 Y800 Z800 E1100 I30                   ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S30                                  ; Set idle timeout
    
    ; Axis Limits
    M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1                         ; Set axis minima
    M208 X220 Y220 Z300 S0                   ; Set axis maxima
    
    ; Endstops
    M574 X1 S1 P"xstop"                            ; configure active-high endstop for low end on X via pin xstop
    M574 Y1 S1 P"ystop"                            ; configure active-high endstop for low end on Y via pin ystop
    M574 Z1 S2 									   ; configure Z-probe endstop for low end on Z
    
    M950 S0 C"exp.heater7"                         ; create servo pin 0 for BLTouch
    M558 P9 C"^zprobe.in" H3 F60 T6000 A10 R0.75 S0.003            ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
    G31 P500 X41.2 Y4.5 Z1.851                   ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
    M557 X41.2:221.2 Y4.5:219.5 S20                       ; define mesh grid
    M671 X28.8:198.8:198:28.8 Y24:24:194:194
    
    
    
    ; Heaters
    M308 S0 P"bedtemp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4138 ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin bedtemp
    M950 H0 C"bedheat" T0                          ; create bed heater output on bedheat and map it to sensor 0
    M307 H0 B0 S1.00                               ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit
    M140 H0                                        ; map heated bed to heater 0
    M143 H0 S120                                   ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
    M308 S1 P"e0temp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950  ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin e0temp
    M950 H1 C"e0heat" T1                           ; create nozzle heater output on e0heat and map it to sensor 1
    M307 H1 B0 S1.00           
    
    ; Fans
    M950 F0 C"fan0" Q500                           ; create fan 0 on pin fan0 and set its frequency
    M106 P0 S0 H-1                                 ; set fan 0 value. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M950 F1 C"fan1" Q500                           ; create fan 1 on pin fan1 and set its frequency
    M106 P1 S1 H1 T45                              ; set fan 1 value. Thermostatic control is turned on
    
    ; Tools
    M563 P0 D0 H1                            ; Define tool 0 S3D
    ;M563 P0 D0 H1 F0							; FΓΌr Prusa Slicer
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                          ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P0 R0 S0                             ; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
    
    ; Automatic saving after power loss is not enabled
    
    ; Custom settings are not configured
    M575 P1 S1 B57600 ; enable support for PanelDue
    M572 D0 S0.15 ; Pressure Advance
    M501
    

    thanks for helping me



  • @lui2004 did you fit a new thermistor too?



  • @jay_s_uk

    no i have leave the original Creality thermistor



  • I left my heat on too long once.... and it pluged my hotend ( udualy tty he nozzle ).. is it possable you left your heat on a bit to long??... its easy to get distracted as i was,,,, burnt filament doesn't extrude and makes your stepper skip or pop also makes it look like your tention isnt correct
    Even when you crank down your tension...foid for thought 😊



  • B3950 is not the correct value for an ender 5.
    see https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Guide/Ender+3+Pro+and+Duet+Maestro+Guide+Part+2:+Configuration/38

    did you tighten the hotend while it was hot?
    if there is a gap that could explain the skipping steps.



  • @Veti i habe a new Silicon Heatbed but i see i dont have chnage the thermistor for hotend.

    I must set the thermistor vice versa

    I must change it and test it again



  • @lui2004 I'm guessing you're comparing this direct drive with the motor you linked to the original Ender 5 hotend/extruder?

    I hate to say this, but I think you may find that your new extruder is a bit under powered... I have a similar spec motor (E3D pancake one) on a BMG (so 3:1 gearing) and that only just gives me the power I need without skipping steps, especially compared to my old bowden setup with massive motors. Looking at the steps/mm, your extruder is ungeared so will have 3x less force compared to mine.
    You also can't do much on the motor current (its rated for 1A and you're already at 1.1A!)
    With all that, you'll need to look at all the little gains you can and set your limits...

    Definitely look at the thermistor and nozzle tightening as the others said. Also play around with the temperature (going a bit hotter may reduce back pressure) and do what you can to minimise friction in the filament feed.

    After that, you're down to finding what your volumetric filament flow limits are for your setup.

    Other option is to look for a slightly more powerful motor or a geared extruder...



  • @engikeneer ok which motor is perfect for my use ?



  • I'd pick at least a 0.9 degree step angle (400 steps / revolution) motor an for ungeared extruder. I'm fiddling with an E3D titan still trying to make the pancake motor work because I punish myself, spent a couple hours tweaking the extruder just yesterday to get it to stop skipping steps at just 3mm/s (tested without the nozzle crosses fingers). For an ungeared extruder though I'd probably just go with a Wantai 42BYGHM810 if I want some snappy retracts and didn't consider effects of weight on ringing.



  • Hi

    i have this Steppermotors here,are they good enough as Extruder motor ?

    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-bipolar-45ncm-64oz-in-2a-42x42x40mm-4-wires-w-1m-cable-and-connector.html



  • @lui2004 Yeah that one looks to have a bit more beef to it! 2.0A & 45Ncm torque vs your pancake motor with 1.0A & 13Ncm (if I trust my German & that Amazon datasheet..). It may be more than you need, and will be noticeably bigger/heavier, but if you can fit it in and don't worry too much about printing at very high speeds, you should be fine.

    Having said that, I would agree with @lord-binky that a 0.9deg stepper would likely be better as it will give you more resolution. TBH there aren't any ones that jump out at me on OMC. Maybe try Farnell or Digikey? TBH I generally just go for the E3D ones (https://e3d-online.com/collections/motors/products/motors) The 'Compact but Powerful' is probably about what you want?

    Have you read this page?
    https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_and_connecting_stepper_motors



  • @engikeneer ok i have order the e3d compact but Powerfull.

    Somthing i must change with this Motor in duet config ?

    Thanks



  • your extruder motor is a 1A motor and you are running it at 1100ma. it will get very hot.
    but that motor is not powerful enough for an ungeared extruder.

    i use the exact same motor on my ender 3, but with a bmg extruder.
    and this mount
    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3354741

    and its working very well.



  • @Veti yeah it looks interessting.

    The old Motor habe 1.8 and the New one have 0.9 die i change somthing on duet for the New motor ?



  • @lui2004 said in After Micro swiss DD upgrade,Extruder skips steps:

    The old Motor habe 1.8 and the New one have 0.9 die i change somthing on duet for the New motor ?

    yes, double the e steps



  • You'll want to change the motor current to something like 1.4A to start with for that one (M906 E1400) and E-steps in the config (M92 Exxx), doubling what you have will get you in the ballpark. If you don't want to fiddle with the extrusion factor often you will want to fine tune your extruder after the change to dial in the exact steps per mm. (ex: Triffid's E-steps fine tune) since it'll change your flow rate.



  • Thanks for All your Help this forum is super 1a πŸ˜‰

    Another to Double the steps is for x16 is it more accurate for extruder to make x128 ?

    Thanks a lot


  • Moderator

    @lui2004 said in After Micro swiss DD upgrade,Extruder skips steps:

    is it more accurate for extruder to make x128 ?

    In some very specific cases where there is very small amounts of extrusion it can help, but in normal cases, no. Stick with x16 and interpolation. Using a 0.9 degree motor and a geared extruder should already get you up to around 800 steps per mm which is a lot of resolution without even changing microsteps which aren't as accurate anyway.



  • @Phaedrux my E-Steps is : E137.78 and for the new Steper that i order the E-Step is Double also 275.56, make somthing wrong ? you wrote somthing about 800 steps πŸ˜•



  • 800 steps are for 0.9 + bmg extruder.

    i would suggest that you start with x16.
    print a benchy
    change to x128 and print the same benchy with the same filament and same settings.
    compare the print and decide for yourself if the print quality has increased.


  • Moderator

    @lui2004 said in After Micro swiss DD upgrade,Extruder skips steps:

    you wrote somthing about 800 steps

    it was just an example, sorry for the confusion.

    For what it's worth, I use x64 microstepping on my Ender 3 to get the steps per mm up a bit on the stock extruder.



  • @Phaedrux no problem

    I have mount today the New stepper and the prints looks a lot better. 😊

    I got a free runout filament sensor and i have connect it on E0 stop but i dont know how to make the M591 for RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.1.1 (2020-05-19b2)

    Ps: i got it i must switch the Red and Black wire

    Thanks


  • Moderator

    @lui2004 said in After Micro swiss DD upgrade,Extruder skips steps:

    I got a free runout filament sensor and i have connect it on E0 stop but i dont know how to make the M591 for RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.1.1 (2020-05-19b2)

    See here https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Connecting_and_configuring_filament-out_sensors and here https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M591_Configure_filament_sensing



  • ok thanks i have install it with success !

    i connected on E0_stop and insert M591 in my config like this:

    ;Filament Sensors
    M591 D0 P2 C"!e0_stop" S1 ;Extruder 1(0)



  • Last question 😁

    I want convert the x axis with linear rails mgn12 bit i dont found nothing for mounting for micro swiss direct drive, anyone habe a link to stl file?

    Thanks in advance πŸ‘πŸΌ


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