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[Revo] New hot end system from E3D?

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  • undefined
    bricor
    last edited by bricor 28 Sept 2021, 20:39

    Another E3D blog post - 9/28/21
    https://e3d-online.com/blogs/news/rapidchangerevo

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 29 Sept 2021, 06:16 Reply Quote 1
    • undefined
      jens55
      last edited by 28 Sept 2021, 21:04

      I am looking at this new system and I am not sure what I think about it.

      I know they don't have hardened nozzles yet (to come, I am sure) but when you bugger up a nozzle with abrasive material or just for the heck of it, it seems like it will be a lot more expensive than just changing the nozzle.
      I have also had sensors malfunction (although they were clones) and just shudder to think what it would cost to replace the heater/sensor module.

      I lean towards liking what I see but I guess we will have to see what pricing is like. I can't honestly see much of an advantage over my Dragon hot ends.
      It will be interesting when first hand use reports show up on the web.

      undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 28 Sept 2021, 21:12 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        alankilian @jens55
        last edited by alankilian 28 Sept 2021, 21:12

        @jens55 said in New hot end system from E3D?:

        I guess we will have to see what pricing is like.

        From that webpage:

        All the cool innovation you see in Revo is still going to cost you significantly
        less than anything else you’ll find in the market of this quality. In fact, for
        around £100 (that’s roughly 120 USD) you’ll not only get a full Revo HotEnd
        you’ll have all four Revo nozzles to swap out.

        If they can sell the full hotend and four nozzles for US$120 it seems like pricing for replacement nozzles should be reasonable.

        But as you said, we'll have to wait and see...

        SeemeCNC Rostock Max V3 converted to V3.2 with a Duet2 Ethernet Firmware 3.2 and SE300

        undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 29 Sept 2021, 02:45 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          DIY-O-Sphere @jens55
          last edited by 28 Sept 2021, 21:34

          @jens55 said in New hot end system from E3D?:

          It will be interesting when first hand use reports show up on the web.

          Check the jubilee discord channel....

          (UTC+1)

          undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 28 Sept 2021, 21:36 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            jens55 @DIY-O-Sphere
            last edited by 28 Sept 2021, 21:36

            @diy-o-sphere, the new E3d stuff is 'announced' but not yet 'available'. So they are all guessing there too 🙂

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 28 Sept 2021, 21:37 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              DIY-O-Sphere @jens55
              last edited by 28 Sept 2021, 21:37

              @jens55
              There are some beta testers,,,,

              (UTC+1)

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 28 Sept 2021, 21:38 Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                jens55 @DIY-O-Sphere
                last edited by 28 Sept 2021, 21:38

                @diy-o-sphere said in New hot end system from E3D?:

                @jens55
                There are some beta testers,,,,

                I must have missed that part ..... I follow that Discord

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  plasticfactory @DIY-O-Sphere
                  last edited by 28 Sept 2021, 22:24

                  @diy-o-sphere Which channel?

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 28 Sept 2021, 22:32 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    DIY-O-Sphere @plasticfactory
                    last edited by 28 Sept 2021, 22:32

                    @plasticfactory

                    #machine-electronics now moved to #random

                    (UTC+1)

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 28 Sept 2021, 22:33 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      plasticfactory @DIY-O-Sphere
                      last edited by plasticfactory 28 Sept 2021, 22:33

                      @diy-o-sphere Thank you.

                      Am I understanding this correctly -- if you remove the nozzle, the hotend comes off as well?

                      undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 29 Sept 2021, 03:43 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        zapta @alankilian
                        last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 02:45

                        @alankilian said in New hot end system from E3D?:

                        If they can sell the full hotend and four nozzles for US$120 it seems like pricing for replacement nozzles should be reasonable.

                        Without cheap clones and imitations, at this price it will be a niche product, like Slice's. Weather we like it or not, it's the cheap Chinese products that create the wide adoption and a rich eco system.

                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 29 Sept 2021, 08:09 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          weed2all @plasticfactory
                          last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 03:43

                          @plasticfactory yes!

                          https://www.thingiverse.com/weed2all/designs

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            o_lampe @alankilian
                            last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 06:09

                            @alankilian said in New hot end system from E3D?:

                            If they can sell the full hotend and four nozzles for US$120 it seems like pricing for replacement nozzles should be reasonable.

                            ...dream on 😉 Maybe it's like buying an inkjet printer for peanuts and later spend $$$ for new ink.
                            It's the classic Rockefeller method: hook'em up with a cheap lantern, then sell petroleum for grands...

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              o_lampe @bricor
                              last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 06:16

                              @bricor @dc42
                              They're using a PTC heater element, wondering how that will cooperate with RRF PID tuning?

                              undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 29 Sept 2021, 07:25 Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                achrn @o_lampe
                                last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 07:25

                                I wonder whether the coupling between heater element and sensor (all in one integrated unit) will be tighter than between heater element and nozzle (noting also that the nozzles seems a loosish fit in the heater element - I see a spring apparently to keep things from completely loose).

                                But I expect E3D have some idea that it works...

                                undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 30 Sept 2021, 00:22 Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  deckingman @zapta
                                  last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 08:09

                                  @zapta said in New hot end system from E3D?:

                                  Without cheap clones and imitations, at this price it will be a niche product, like Slice's. Weather we like it or not, it's the cheap Chinese products that create the wide adoption and a rich eco system.

                                  If it wasn't for cheap clones, the genuine original product would be cheaper and need not be a niche product. It's the cheap clones that drive up the price of the genuine original and stifle innovation. It costs money to design and develop a new product. That R&D cost can be amortised over a number of unit sales. Let's say for example that it costs a company 10,000 in R&D costs to develop an idea. If that company can sell 10,000 units, then they would only need to charge 1.00 per unit to get their costs back. But if they only sell 100 units, then they would need to charge 100.00 per unit just to get their R&D costs back. So when cloners come along and steal their ideas, they have no such R&D costs, so they can undercut the original, which drives down sales of the original making the cost differential greater.

                                  Cloners are not interested in developing new products - why should they when they can steal other peoples ideas for nothing? So why would any company spend money on R&D if they can never get that money back?

                                  A case in point. I've spent 2 years attempting to develop a 6 input hot end - probably about 10 hours a week on average. That's 1000 hours of my time @ say a modest £10 per hour = £10,000 for labour. Then I bought a small lathe and milling machine plus tooling so another £2,000 or so. So if this ever went to market, I would want get that £12,000 back. But I know that I could never sell enough units at a reasonable enough price to recoup that cost because a Chinese cloner would steal my design and so could sell them for less. So if ever I get this thing working, I will take the design to my grave rather then let a thief profit from it.

                                  I often wonder how many other innovative ideas are sitting around which will never be bought to market for the same reasons.

                                  Ian
                                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 29 Sept 2021, 14:39 Reply Quote 3
                                  • undefined
                                    jay_s_uk @o_lampe
                                    last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 08:12

                                    @o_lampe I've had no issues tuning my beta unit

                                    Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      Diamondback
                                      last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 08:47

                                      @o_lampe said in New hot end system from E3D?:

                                      @bricor @dc42
                                      They're using a PTC heater element, wondering how that will cooperate with RRF PID tuning?

                                      I did not notice any difference to "normal" heaters, it worked just fine.

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 29 Sept 2021, 14:29 Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        zapta @Diamondback
                                        last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 14:29

                                        @diamondback said in New hot end system from E3D?:

                                        I did not notice any difference to "normal" heaters, it worked just fine.

                                        When you run the Duet's PID, did it report a lower 'max temperature' due to the PTC?

                                        The PTC is represented as a safety feature that limits the max temp in case the power mostfet get stuck in on state.

                                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 29 Sept 2021, 19:02 Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          Gixxerfast
                                          last edited by 29 Sept 2021, 14:36

                                          From what I've read from devs on the Voron discords who have had pre-release versions for quite some time now, I will probably get one as soon as I can. They are very happy with them.

                                          I can pay a bit premium buying from a European company as with Bondtech and Duet as long they offer functionality and just aren't patent trolls or marketing...

                                          Voron V2.4 (#1317) with Duet 3 Mini5+ Wifi and 1LC v1.1 Toolboard
                                          Voron V0.1 (#637) with Duet 3 Mini 5+ Wifi and 1LC v1.2 Toolboard
                                          Ender 3 Pro with BTT SKR-2 + RRF

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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