[Revo] New hot end system from E3D?

Without cheap clones and imitations, at this price it will be a niche product, like Slice's. Weather we like it or not, it's the cheap Chinese products that create the wide adoption and a rich eco system.

weed2all

@plasticfactory yes!

o_lampe

@alankilian said in New hot end system from E3D?:

If they can sell the full hotend and four nozzles for US$120 it seems like pricing for replacement nozzles should be reasonable.

...dream on Maybe it's like buying an inkjet printer for peanuts and later spend $$$ for new ink.
It's the classic Rockefeller method: hook'em up with a cheap lantern, then sell petroleum for grands...

o_lampe

@bricor @dc42
They're using a PTC heater element, wondering how that will cooperate with RRF PID tuning?

achrn

I wonder whether the coupling between heater element and sensor (all in one integrated unit) will be tighter than between heater element and nozzle (noting also that the nozzles seems a loosish fit in the heater element - I see a spring apparently to keep things from completely loose).

But I expect E3D have some idea that it works...

deckingman

@zapta said in New hot end system from E3D?:

Without cheap clones and imitations, at this price it will be a niche product, like Slice's. Weather we like it or not, it's the cheap Chinese products that create the wide adoption and a rich eco system.

If it wasn't for cheap clones, the genuine original product would be cheaper and need not be a niche product. It's the cheap clones that drive up the price of the genuine original and stifle innovation. It costs money to design and develop a new product. That R&D cost can be amortised over a number of unit sales. Let's say for example that it costs a company 10,000 in R&D costs to develop an idea. If that company can sell 10,000 units, then they would only need to charge 1.00 per unit to get their costs back. But if they only sell 100 units, then they would need to charge 100.00 per unit just to get their R&D costs back. So when cloners come along and steal their ideas, they have no such R&D costs, so they can undercut the original, which drives down sales of the original making the cost differential greater.

Cloners are not interested in developing new products - why should they when they can steal other peoples ideas for nothing? So why would any company spend money on R&D if they can never get that money back?

A case in point. I've spent 2 years attempting to develop a 6 input hot end - probably about 10 hours a week on average. That's 1000 hours of my time @ say a modest £10 per hour = £10,000 for labour. Then I bought a small lathe and milling machine plus tooling so another £2,000 or so. So if this ever went to market, I would want get that £12,000 back. But I know that I could never sell enough units at a reasonable enough price to recoup that cost because a Chinese cloner would steal my design and so could sell them for less. So if ever I get this thing working, I will take the design to my grave rather then let a thief profit from it.

I often wonder how many other innovative ideas are sitting around which will never be bought to market for the same reasons.

jay_s_uk

@o_lampe I've had no issues tuning my beta unit

Diamondback

@o_lampe said in New hot end system from E3D?:

@bricor @dc42
They're using a PTC heater element, wondering how that will cooperate with RRF PID tuning?

I did not notice any difference to "normal" heaters, it worked just fine.

zapta

@diamondback said in New hot end system from E3D?:

I did not notice any difference to "normal" heaters, it worked just fine.

When you run the Duet's PID, did it report a lower 'max temperature' due to the PTC?

The PTC is represented as a safety feature that limits the max temp in case the power mostfet get stuck in on state.

Gixxerfast

From what I've read from devs on the Voron discords who have had pre-release versions for quite some time now, I will probably get one as soon as I can. They are very happy with them.

I can pay a bit premium buying from a European company as with Bondtech and Duet as long they offer functionality and just aren't patent trolls or marketing...

zapta

@deckingman said in New hot end system from E3D?:

... the genuine original product would be cheaper and need not be a niche product.

It depends. If you have government protection for your product, maximizing profit doesn't necessary means maximizing the user base (at a lower per unit cost).

'innovations' are dime a dozen and if they will chose to be expensive and protected, they will lose the community.

As for this new product, my understanding that the main selling points are ease of changing nozzles and high flow rate, and if they will be found attractive to the market (I am not sure about that), people will find non infringing ways to provide them.

This is by no mean a criticism of E3D. They have the right to chose any legal business model they want.

Diamondback

@zapta RRF does not seem to notice that, it still warns me about a massively high temp (I haven't really tested how high it can go past 290°C, did not want to risk any damage or bake the silicone sock)

DIY-O-Sphere

@zapta
I wonder if E3D was in any way "inspired" by the maxiwatt heater. It definitely looks very similar...